Viewing Issue Advanced Details
ID Category [?] Severity [?] Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
01232 Sound Minor Have not tried Feb 15, 2008, 14:44 Nov 9, 2016, 09:05
Tester Kold666 View Status Public Platform
Assigned To Resolution Reopened OS
Status [?] Confirmed Driver aliens.cpp
Version 0.123u1 Fixed in Version Build
Summary 01232: aliens: Comparing to the pcb, the music in mame is slower.
Description Comparing to the pcb, the music in mame is slower. I verified the clocks and they are right for the sound section, so it must be something other.
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information
Flags Verified with Original
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems aliens
Attached Files
wma file icon aliens0123u1gre.wma (602,571 bytes) Feb 15, 2008, 14:45
mp3 file icon aliens_temp.mp3 (323,376 bytes) Nov 9, 2016, 09:05 Uploaded by Fujix
(Compressed) original posted by Mamesick
mp3 file icon aliens_fix_overclock.mp3 (502,944 bytes) Nov 9, 2016, 09:05 Uploaded by Fujix
(Compressed) original posted by Mamesick
Relationships
related to 04825Confirmed vendetta: In MAME the music tempo is slower than real PCB 
related to 00413Confirmed crimfght: The speed of the music is playing ever so slightly too slowly. 
related to 03754Confirmed scontra, scontraj: Flaws in sound emulation 
Notes
16
User avatar
No.01606
nicolasa
Developer
Jul 13, 2008, 14:58
Did you verify all clocks with a frequency counter or just the crystals?

The music speed seems to be controlled solely by the YM2151 clock. The sample is about 7% faster than MAME. That's a lot, though if the xtal on the board is a lemon, that might explain it.
User avatar
No.01610
Kold666
Developer
Jul 14, 2008, 07:15
Yes, I verified them.
What is a lemon?
User avatar
No.01614
nicolasa
Developer
Jul 14, 2008, 08:17
"lemon" = "defective" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lemon

Now, raising the YM2151 frequency to about 3.8MHz makes MAME match the sample. However, if the original is actually running at 3.57MHz we have a problem. I gather that all other YM2151 games work correctly in MAME, so I'd rule out a bug in the YM2151 timer emulation.

One possible difference is that most games use the YM2151 interrupts to drive the speed, while Aliens appears to poll the timer registers.
User avatar
No.01616
Kold666
Developer
Jul 14, 2008, 09:52
The Xtal is the same 3.57mhz used on many other konami games and I had the chance to hear other Aliens pcbs with the same music tempo difference.

Maybe like you said there is a difference in how Aliens use the timers
User avatar
No.01617
Kold666
Developer
Jul 14, 2008, 09:58
edited on: Jul 14, 2008, 09:59
I add also an information about an hardware bug affecting one of the tilemap custom chips (I don't remember which is, I have to check at home later).

If this tilemap chip is the 1989 revision, during the fades (for example in the title screen) there is see an annoying graphic glitch which resemble a sort of white noise in the upper half of the screen.
its duration matches the fade.

If the chip is the 1988 revision everything is ok.

User avatar
No.01626
nicolasa
Developer
Jul 14, 2008, 15:23
I think I have isolated the timer problem, which might affect a large number of games. Still have to see how to fix it.

Could you also check the main CPU clock please? That would be pin 11 of the 052526 if I'm not mistaken.

Regarding the hardware bug, if you want you could file it separately together with screenshots. These 1988 and 1989 revisions, are they revision of the same chip ID? Or different IDs? (that is 051961 vs. 052109)
User avatar
No.01630
Kold666
Developer
Jul 14, 2008, 16:58
edited on: Jul 14, 2008, 16:59
I have borrowed it, I'll check asap.
btw, if I am not wrong, it was 12mhz and Guru told me it was divided internally by 4...
Can the timer problem have something to do with jackal music?

As for the hardware bug, the revision belongs to the same chip, the tilemap generator chip used on Aliens (don't remember which is right now).
I don't think it should be posted because it's an chip hardware bug which mame can't reproduce.

User avatar
No.01653
Kold666
Developer
Jul 16, 2008, 16:49
I just measured pin 11 and it's 12mhz
User avatar
No.08465
Fortuna
Tester
Apr 26, 2012, 17:35
same chip but with different mhz?
User avatar
No.08519
Machone
Tester
May 8, 2012, 04:41
This fix must not have made it in. The music is still too slow in u8 as compared to the attached sample.
User avatar
No.08520
Tafoid
Administrator
May 8, 2012, 04:46
It's entirely possible something else happened along the way to influence it - I can assure you the patch did get added to the source, in any case.
User avatar
No.08521
Machone
Tester
May 8, 2012, 04:56
Ok, but at this moment in time the bug still exists so perhaps this one shouldn't be set to resolved quite yet.
User avatar
No.08530
Tempora
Tester
May 9, 2012, 07:07
Will have to agree that "Fixed in Version 0.145u8" needs to be revoked because the bug is still present.
User avatar
No.08532
Mamesick
Senior Tester
May 9, 2012, 10:54
Sorry, my fault. I'm fixing it for real this time. But since I'm not a good judge please test the attached "aliens_temp.wav"....
User avatar
No.08535
Machone
Tester
May 9, 2012, 14:15
Hi! Thanks for looking into this bug, but unfortunately "aliens_temp.wav" is still too slow compared to the original sample.

Also, it's worth pointing out that this slow tempo bug also affects some other Konami games such as Super Contra, Rock n Rage and probably many others.
User avatar
No.08536
Tempora
Tester
May 10, 2012, 03:31
edited on: May 15, 2012, 00:26
Second that. The fix doesn't sound any different from the way it is now. Listen to the background beat at the 22 second mark onward in the reference recording. That frantic pace in the beat is the reference point because right now the music is too somber and serious because of the slow tempo.