Viewing Issue Advanced Details
ID Category [?] Severity [?] Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
03673 DIP/Input Trivial N/A Jan 18, 2010, 04:24 Nov 17, 2016, 04:34
Tester colour_thief View Status Public Platform
Assigned To Resolution Fixed OS
Status [?] Resolved Driver
Version 0.136u1 Fixed in Version N/A Build
Summary 03673: tgmj, tgm2, tgm2p, mrdrillr, mrdrilr2, mrdrlr2a, mrdrilrg: These games use 4-way joysticks and MAME reports 8-way.
Description As per the attached picture from tgm2/tgm2p's manual, the game is intended to use 4-way joysticks. Checking maws (updated for 0.136u1), MAME is reporting this game as using 8-way joysticks.

I don't have manuals for the other sets but I know people who probably do if pictures are really necessary.
Steps To Reproduce n/a
Additional Information
Flags Verified with Original
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems tgmj, tgm2, tgm2p, mrdrillr, mrdrilr2, mrdrlr2a, mrdrilrg
Attached Files
jpg file icon 4-way.jpg (42,336 bytes) Jan 18, 2010, 04:24
bmp file icon mrdriller2cp.bmp (616,510 bytes) Jan 18, 2010, 14:05
Relationships
There are no relationsihp linked to this issue.
Notes
6
User avatar
No.05528
Tafoid
Administrator
Jan 18, 2010, 14:05
I invite other comments about this, as my ideas on the subject might be flawed.

JAMMA, by designed, is designed to read only 4 directions. It's to the individual program/game to read diagonals (prevalent largely in fighting games). In order for this to work properly in MAME, most/all games using JAMMA are set up as 8-way to cover the possibilities that diagonal reading might be used. I'm not disputing the assertion, just trying to explain why MAME might have 8-way set up in almost every instance of JAMMA controlling.

I'll confirm the issue due to your documents as well as my review of the Mr. Driller 2 manual clear showing both P1 and P2 have 4-way controlled.
(apologizes for BMP)
User avatar
No.05533
Haze
Senior Tester
Jan 18, 2010, 14:24
edited on: Jan 18, 2010, 14:28
I think MAME really needs another layer of abstraction over the inputs.

This could provide features, like selecting a 2, 4, or 8-way joystick, and then have MAME handle the input ports in an appropriate way, without having to put the joystick type explicitly on each of the directions you want to limit in the input port definition (which is messy IMO, as you're mixing physical properties of a stick with logical port inputs)

You could still specify a default for each game, but have the choice to ignore it. This better reflects that these things were often put in converted cabs, and the 4-way joystick was optional, even if they recommend it.

This would also be the layer at which things like the 'opposite direction' blocking could be enabled / disabled. There is at least one system I can think of (NGCD in MESS) where you want to be able to press left+right during development as it enables a debug mode. This is also a physical property of the stick, rather than anything specific to the way the port / input to the pcb works. Obviously doing that breaks a lot of badly programmed games, so it would be 'on' by default.

That would be one for Aaron tho.

User avatar
No.05534
Tafoid
Administrator
Jan 18, 2010, 14:37
There was recent discussion on mameworld about this as well as the bug we discussed this in the past (01806)
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=211620

I agree. Having the ability to disable the opposite direction limitation does sound like a beneficial option.
User avatar
No.05536
Haze
Senior Tester
Jan 18, 2010, 14:38
Yeah, I was mainly just pointing out that this is basically the same thing, it's dealing with the physical properties of the stick, and should exist at a different level, not kludged into the input port as it currently is.
User avatar
No.05537
colour_thief
Tester
Jan 18, 2010, 15:43
edited on: Jan 18, 2010, 22:43
I agree with both of you. There should at least be a commandline argument to turn off input filtering or force non-default filtering. After all in real life you can hook up anything you like. But I see that as a seperate issue.

Believe it or not I've heard of American arcades that have these games set up with 8-way joysticks, and when knowledgeable players request them to be changed to 4-way they say the player is wrong and point to MAME as proof. This is a source of great frustration as it makes the games less playable. In the absence of English manuals, MAME reporting it correctly would hopefully help keep real arcades properly working.

User avatar
No.13378
Fujix
Administrator
Nov 17, 2016, 04:34
All games have 4-way input now. Fixed.