Viewing Issue Advanced Details
ID Category [?] Severity [?] Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
07054 Graphics Minor Always 18 days ago 15 days ago
Tester ICEknight View Status Public Platform MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To Resolution Open OS Windows 10 (64-bit)
Status [?] Acknowledged Driver nes.cpp
Version 0.200 Fixed in Version Build 64-bit
Summary MESS-specific 07054: All machines in nes.cpp, vsnes.cpp and related: Visible area is too small
Description Captured footage shows that the current NES emulation is missing part of the original console's screen output:

Also at 1:37 here:
&feature=youtu.be&t=1m37s

As can be seen, the NES has more screen space to the sides and sometimes seems to show a few extra lines at the bottom just like MAME's PC Engine emulation is already showing, which could also be seen in this video of VS Excitebike (at 2:10):
?t=2h10m33s

Please note that the crisper footage is using RGB mods, so the colors are likely off, and also there may be more actual screen space that may have been cropped by the scaler+capture hardware (the VS Excitebike footage seems to be showing more colored lines at the bottom) so, as in #7048, it would be advised to check what the real hardware fully outputs before setting a definitive screen size.

Here's some screens for comparison:
MAME: https://i.imgur.com/lWZXvsN.png
RGB mod 1: https://i.imgur.com/4hOoqSc.png
RGB mod 2: https://i.imgur.com/uL5Ztw3.png
AV Famicom with composite cables: https://i.imgur.com/wfc4UVz.png
Steps To Reproduce Load Mega Man 2, select Air Man.
Additional Information Related to #6892, same kind of issue but different system.
Flags
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems All machines in nes.cpp, vsnes.cpp and related
Attached Files
png file icon 0018.png (2,721 bytes) 18 days ago Uploaded by ICEknight
ICEknight
Relationships
There are no relationsihp linked to this issue.
Notes
3
User avatar
No.15299
ICEknight
Tester
17 days ago
Something I've noticed: Both the composite and RGB captures seem to be slightly uncentered in different ways:

-Composite shows the full (?) vertical resolution, but is shifted to the right, so there's an empty white column to the left while some of the right border is cropped.
-RGB shows the full (?) horizontal resolution, but it's shifted upwards, so it shows that small border at the bottom while cropping some actually drawn pixels on the top of the screen (like also seems to happen with current PC Engine emulation).

(Again, some additional cropping may be happening due to the scaler+capture hardware combination, so there may be even more actual screen space that we're not seeing)
User avatar
No.15300
B2K24
Moderator
16 days ago
I honestly don't remember having my Nintendo unit connected to my NTSC TV via composite looking that way.

Some videos on YT support what you have presented and others do not such as this one:


My opinion is there isn't enough evidence presented at this time to change anything.

It would be helpful if someone with access to unmodified hardware could do some tests/measurements or show proof of the following.
User avatar
No.15301
ICEknight
Tester
16 days ago
edited on: 16 days ago
That video seems to have been cropped so that the border doesn't take any space needed for the speedrunning stuff, programs like OBS let you move things around easily. It's also cropping a couple of pixels by the right side of the screen.

TVs hide the overscan area for any signal they receive, including a small part of the NES drawn area as I've just verified on my PAL system (exactly how much, depends entirely on each TV set), that's why you didn't see these back then. Also, old emulators had a tendency to artificially crop any borders or even actually drawn areas in the overscan (in the case of NES emulators) so that you wouldn't see what you weren't supposed to, but they weren't striving for emulation accuracy like MAME is. So, if anything, any unwanted screen area could be just hidden with a "crop overscan" option (https://i.imgur.com/8zlyCBQ.png) which would avoid any complaints about the borders, make horizontally-scrolling NES games look better, "solve" BTANBs like #7030 and hide any problems that may happen in those early Neo Geo games that were designed with a slightly smaller visible screen size.


The weirdest thing here is once again (as in #7048) the bottom border which can only be seen sometimes and causes the topmost drawn pixels to be cropped whenever it's visible (which also happens in MAME's current PC Engine emulation). And this doesn't only seem to happen when using modded systems, but also with Nintendo's official implementation for the VS arcades...


PS: Just checked my unmodified PAL NES and it indeed doesn't show any colored border at the bottom, while it correctly shows the topmost drawn pixels (there's of course some additional black borders ar the top and bottom).

Also, found some FDS non-RGB footage (I'm guessing it's a composite-modded Famicom?) which shows both the colored bottom border and the white column on the left side, while it crops the topmost pixels (and presumably some pixels at the right side) due to the screen shifting: