06590: clones of invaders: Non-Midway versions had different discrete sounds, not currently emulated

ID	Category [?]	Severity [?]	Reproducibility	Date Submitted	Last Update
06590	Sound	Minor	Always	May 28, 2017, 17:48	May 31, 2017, 04:51

Tester	TServo2049	View Status	Public	Platform	MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To		Resolution	Open	OS
Status [?]	Acknowledged			Driver	midw8080/8080bw.cpp
Version	0.185	Fixed in Version		Build
		Fixed in Git Commit		Github Pull Request #

Summary	06590: clones of invaders: Non-Midway versions had different discrete sounds, not currently emulated
Description	When discrete sound emulation was added to invaders in 0.114u2, it was based on a Midway board. However, Taito boards had different sound effects (most notably the sound of destroying an invader). Video footage of various bootlegs/clone PCBs found online (e.g., Cosmic Monsters, Space War) shows that they are also derived from the Taito sounds; even when they vary from official Taito boards and from each other, they sound like variations of the Taito sounds and not the Midway ones. Only the parent set invaders should be using discrete sound emulation of a Midway board. The Taito sets should have discrete sound emulation from a Taito board, as should any other invaders clones, or other games currently using the discrete emulation code from invaders.
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information	The invaders sample set matches the Taito sound effects. The "Taito" sound for destroying an invader can also be heard in invad2ct when player 1 destroys an invader. (The "Midway" sound is used for player 2.)
Github Commit

Flags
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems	clones of invaders

Attached Files	invaders-taito.mp3 (1,261,191 bytes) May 28, 2017, 17:48 Uploaded by TServo2050 Examples of gameplay audio from multiple Taito boards

No.13857 Tafoid Administrator May 28, 2017, 18:39	Sadly, there are too many invaders clones which have the old invaders samples cobbled into it which do not reflect the actual boards.
No.13858 TServo2049 Tester May 28, 2017, 20:17 edited on: Jun 5, 2017, 15:20	I am fully aware of that fact. The old samples may come from a Taito board, but they do not have the variation that occurs on an individual real machine in action, especially when you destroy an invader; it's a pair of sounds, one high and one low, but sometimes the high sound comes first, sometimes it's the low sound, other times it starts in the middle of one of the two. In the samples, that sound is the same every time. I am trying to find YouTube footage of real machines/boards. I've definitely found footage of multiple official Taito ones, that's where I got the sounds I attached. As for clones/bootlegs, I have found some footage, and while they often vary considerably from the Taito ones in speed/pitch and so on, they are still mostly permutations of the same basic sounds the Taito versions make. (I say "mostly" because there is still variation among the bootlegs, even between multiple machines of the same "title". For example I've found different videos of Zaccaria's The Invaders that have different sound effects, one machine mostly has the "Taito" type sound effects but with a totally different UFO sound effect, while another has completely different sounds.) I understand that separate discrete emulation for every different clone board would be an insanely huge task, but I feel like discrete emulation of real Taito hardware for the official Taito sets should at least be looked into. At the very least, the legit Taito sets shouldn't be making the sounds of a Midway version, which is what's happening right now. (In fact, I checked in Github and the Taito/Midway discrepancy is already mentioned as a TODO comment in the 8080bw driver, but I think it was added 5 or so years back.) Examples of bootleg boards which have variations on the Taito sounds: Cosmic Monsters: Jatre Specter:

No.13857

Tafoid

Administrator

May 28, 2017, 18:39

Sadly, there are too many invaders clones which have the old invaders samples cobbled into it which do not reflect the actual boards.

No.13858

TServo2049

Tester

May 28, 2017, 20:17

edited on: Jun 5, 2017, 15:20

I am fully aware of that fact. The old samples may come from a Taito board, but they do not have the variation that occurs on an individual real machine in action, especially when you destroy an invader; it's a pair of sounds, one high and one low, but sometimes the high sound comes first, sometimes it's the low sound, other times it starts in the middle of one of the two. In the samples, that sound is the same every time.

I am trying to find YouTube footage of real machines/boards. I've definitely found footage of multiple official Taito ones, that's where I got the sounds I attached.

As for clones/bootlegs, I have found some footage, and while they often vary considerably from the Taito ones in speed/pitch and so on, they are still mostly permutations of the same basic sounds the Taito versions make.

(I say "mostly" because there is still variation among the bootlegs, even between multiple machines of the same "title". For example I've found different videos of Zaccaria's The Invaders that have different sound effects, one machine mostly has the "Taito" type sound effects but with a totally different UFO sound effect, while another has *completely* different sounds.)

I understand that separate discrete emulation for every different clone board would be an insanely huge task, but I feel like discrete emulation of real Taito hardware for the official Taito sets should at least be looked into. At the very least, the legit Taito sets shouldn't be making the sounds of a Midway version, which is what's happening right now. (In fact, I checked in Github and the Taito/Midway discrepancy is already mentioned as a TODO comment in the 8080bw driver, but I think it was added 5 or so years back.)

Examples of bootleg boards which have variations on the Taito sounds:

Cosmic Monsters:

Jatre Specter: