Viewing Issue Advanced Details
ID Category [?] Severity [?] Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
07054 Graphics Minor Always Jul 26, 2018, 22:22 Aug 24, 2018, 10:50
Tester ICEknight View Status Public Platform MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To Resolution Open OS Windows 10 (64-bit)
Status [?] Acknowledged Driver nes.cpp
Version 0.200 Fixed in Version Build 64-bit
Summary MESS-specific 07054: All machines in nes.cpp, vsnes.cpp and related: Visible area is too small
Description Captured footage shows that the current NES emulation is missing part of the original console's screen output:

Also at 1:37 here:

As can be seen, the NES has more screen space to the sides and sometimes seems to show a few extra lines at the bottom just like MAME's PC Engine emulation is already showing, which could also be seen in this video of VS Excitebike (at 2:10):

Please note that the crisper footage is using RGB mods, so the colors are likely off, and also there may be more actual screen space that may have been cropped by the scaler+capture hardware (the VS Excitebike footage seems to be showing more colored lines at the bottom) so, as in #7048, it would be advised to check what the real hardware fully outputs before setting a definitive screen size.

Here's some screens for comparison:
RGB mod 1:
RGB mod 2:
AV Famicom with composite cables:
Steps To Reproduce Load Mega Man 2, select Air Man.
Additional Information Related to #6892, same kind of issue but different system.
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems All machines in nes.cpp, vsnes.cpp and related
Attached Files
png file icon 0018.png (2,721 bytes) Jul 26, 2018, 22:22 Uploaded by ICEknight
There are no relationship linked to this issue.
User avatar
Jul 28, 2018, 19:42
Something I've noticed: Both the composite and RGB captures seem to be slightly uncentered in different ways:

-Composite shows the full (?) vertical resolution, but is shifted to the right, so there's an empty white column to the left while some of the right border is cropped.
-RGB shows the full (?) horizontal resolution, but it's shifted upwards, so it shows that small border at the bottom while cropping some actually drawn pixels on the top of the screen (like also seems to happen with current PC Engine emulation).

(Again, some additional cropping may be happening due to the scaler+capture hardware combination, so there may be even more actual screen space that we're not seeing)
User avatar
Jul 28, 2018, 22:07
I honestly don't remember having my Nintendo unit connected to my NTSC TV via composite looking that way.

Some videos on YT support what you have presented and others do not such as this one:

My opinion is there isn't enough evidence presented at this time to change anything.

It would be helpful if someone with access to unmodified hardware could do some tests/measurements or show proof of the following.
User avatar
Jul 28, 2018, 23:54
edited on: Jul 28, 2018, 23:58
That video seems to have been cropped so that the border doesn't take any space needed for the speedrunning stuff, programs like OBS let you move things around easily. It's also cropping a couple of pixels by the right side of the screen.

TVs hide the overscan area for any signal they receive, including a small part of the NES drawn area as I've just verified on my PAL system (exactly how much, depends entirely on each TV set), that's why you didn't see these back then. Also, old emulators had a tendency to artificially crop any borders or even actually drawn areas in the overscan (in the case of NES emulators) so that you wouldn't see what you weren't supposed to, but they weren't striving for emulation accuracy like MAME is. So, if anything, any unwanted screen area could be just hidden with a "crop overscan" option ( which would avoid any complaints about the borders, make horizontally-scrolling NES games look better, "solve" BTANBs like #7030 and hide any problems that may happen in those early Neo Geo games that were designed with a slightly smaller visible screen size.

The weirdest thing here is once again (as in #7048) the bottom border which can only be seen sometimes and causes the topmost drawn pixels to be cropped whenever it's visible (which also happens in MAME's current PC Engine emulation). And this doesn't only seem to happen when using modded systems, but also with Nintendo's official implementation for the VS arcades...

PS: Just checked my unmodified PAL NES and it indeed doesn't show any colored border at the bottom, while it correctly shows the topmost drawn pixels (there's of course some additional black borders ar the top and bottom).

Also, found some FDS non-RGB footage (I'm guessing it's a composite-modded Famicom?) which shows both the colored bottom border and the white column on the left side, while it crops the topmost pixels (and presumably some pixels at the right side) due to the screen shifting:
User avatar
Aug 24, 2018, 10:50
edited on: Aug 24, 2018, 17:45
Some captured footage of the unreleased VS game Lionex has surfaced and it seems to show a similar display layout to the AV Famicom's:

What we can see here:
-Game window is 240x256, the topmost pixels are not being cropped here
-Left colored border is 15px wide
-Leftmost differently-colored column is 1px wide
-Right colored border is 10px wide (+1px black extra column? See below)
-Colored border at the very bottom is 2px tall (consistent with the VS Excitebike footage?)
I've re-checked and these measurements are consistent with the previous AV Famicom examples, with the exception of the right border seemingly showing an additional 11th colored column for the AV Famicom which shows up as a last black 1px-wide column in the VS footage.

Now, remember the white 1px column on the left side? Thanks to the clearer picture, it can be seen that it actually changes colors depending on the border's (or some other palette index?).

(Once again, it's possible that the capture card is cropping the borders a bit)

Border measurements, for reference:

EDIT: This is how the cropped display looks like in an actual monitor:

Side-by-side comparison: