Viewing Issue Advanced Details
|ID||Category [?]||Severity [?]||Reproducibility||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|07822||Color/Palette||Trivial||Always||Dec 16, 2020, 14:29||Dec 17, 2020, 18:46|
|Tester||mgkastra||View Status||Public||Platform||MAME (Official Binary)|
|Assigned To||Resolution||Open||OS||Windows 10 (64-bit)|
|Version||0.226||Fixed in Version||Build|
|Fixed in Git Commit||Github Pull Request #|
|Summary||07822: turtles: Turtles has two color PROMS flipped due to a production error|
Turtles has two color PROMS, 5H and 5J flipped in MAME. Switching these two by renaming each to the other, fixes this issue and the mystery boxes display blue and the background displays as red. I am proposing that 5H is actually 5J and 5J is actually 5H.
Based on the STERN Turtles flyer, the background should be red and mystery boxes blue.
All hardware examples I have found of Turtles PCB, including boards I own, all have red backgrounds with blue mystery boxes.
|Steps To Reproduce||Load Turtles and note the color of the background (blue) and mystery boxes (red). Rename 5H and 5J to each other and load again to note that background is now red and mystery boxes are now blue.|
Service Bulletin release by STERN. See Upload File
October 28, 1981
Lieberman Music Company
9549 Penn Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55431
ATTN: Service Manager
RE: Turtles Color
Due to a problem in production, you have received the new Turtles game with the Color Proms 5H, 5F, on the KT-4108-2 board reversed. These chips were incorrectly labeled so please disregard those labels. This causes the reds and blues on the screen to be reversed. To correct this problem, please switch these two chips.
|Flags||Verified with Original|
|Affected Sets / Systems||turtles|
STERN_SB_Turtles.jpg (532,823 bytes) Dec 16, 2020, 14:29 Uploaded by mgkastra
STERN Service Bulletin noting mistake in markings
SternTurtlesFlyer.jpg (240,635 bytes) Dec 16, 2020, 14:41 Uploaded by mgkastra
TurtlesWith5Hand5Jflipped.png (761,887 bytes) Dec 16, 2020, 14:48 Uploaded by mgkastra
Turtles in MAME with 5H and 5J flipped
|There are no relationship linked to this issue.|
Dec 16, 2020, 22:18
PCB/Arcade example video which shows correct colors
Dec 16, 2020, 22:38
Tafoid, that only proves that's a pcb with the problem admitted by Stern in the letter.
Maybe MAME should keep the flipped roms version, cause history was also written by this version. But a version with the proms correctly placed should be added IMO.
Dec 16, 2020, 22:48
As near as I can tell, this has been wrong for so long...
It was correct in MAME 0.21 and changed in MAME 0.24 where it seemingly has been like that since.
I have more research to do
Dec 17, 2020, 16:00
edited on: Dec 17, 2020, 16:01
technically neither is 'wrong'
it was shipped in an incorrect configuration. All arcades would end up with the 'incorrect' looking version, the majority of players likely recognize that colour scheme as it was widespread.
Stern admitted they'd made a mistake. Some arcades would take on board that advice and swap the ROMs. Players in those arcades would be exposed to the correct colours.
It therefore existed in both forms, and based on what people have found, the 'fixed' version is far less common (as I doubt most operators cared)
It's basically a 'revision' even if the only difference is the ROMs got swapped around.
Dec 17, 2020, 17:51
edited on: Dec 17, 2020, 18:04
Adding to this, all surviving boards I have found and seen on actual hardware has been the red versions. I have only seen Blue on a couple flyers and MAME. This also is true about Turpin and 600.
So Sega Turpin and Konami 600, I have only seen these with red backgrounds.