08047: pce and clones: Inverted button layout for bottom row of 6-Button pads

ID	Category [?]	Severity [?]	Reproducibility	Date Submitted	Last Update
08047	DIP/Input	Minor	Always	Aug 6, 2021, 17:04	Oct 26, 2021, 11:28

Tester	ICEknight	View Status	Public	Platform	MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To		Resolution	No change required	OS	Windows 10 (64-bit)
Status [?]	Closed			Driver	nec/pce.cpp
Version	0.234	Fixed in Version		Build	64-bit
		Fixed in Git Commit		Github Pull Request #

Summary	08047: pce and clones: Inverted button layout for bottom row of 6-Button pads
Description	The layout of buttons III, II, I on the two 6-button pads is inverted. This causes kick and punch strength in fighting games to not match, and also inverts the controls in regular 2-button games.
Steps To Reproduce	-Load the PC Engine or Turbografx 16 core with a any game, notice how the first 2 buttons are layed out -Open menu with Tab -Slot devices -Set "ctrl" to either "arcade_pad_6" or "avenue_pad_6" -Reset or load game, now the button layout is inverted -Go to "Machine configuration" -> "Joypad mode" -> "6-Buttons mode" to check the order of punch/kick strength in games like sf2ce.
Additional Information	Just needs to swap the "III" and "I" buttons.
Github Commit

Flags
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems	pce and clones

Attached Files	avenue pad 6.png (327,374 bytes) Aug 17, 2021, 22:39 Uploaded by ICEknight Avenue Pad 6 button layout
Attached Files	pce 6 button mame defaults.png (4,691 bytes) Aug 17, 2021, 22:40 Uploaded by ICEknight MAME 0.234 default button layout

No.19156 ICEknight Tester Aug 17, 2021, 22:42 edited on: Aug 17, 2021, 23:39	I've added pics of the (odd) original button layout and MAME's current default one, to illustrate the source of the confusion.
No.19376 cuavas Administrator Oct 25, 2021, 15:08	The trouble with trying to make a friendly layout for a pad like this is that you’re then making assumptions about the layout of the user’s controllers. The most common controller layout isn't six face buttons, it’s the SNES-inspired four face buttons in a cross plus shoulder buttons. If you flip the order of buttons to make the layout look right on the keyboard, you’ll end up making it more confusing for people using game controllers. Another issue is that there are 2- and 3-button pads for the system as well, so if you flip buttons I and III, then you end up with either the controls being shifted for the 2-button pad compared to the 3- and 6-button pads, or if you try to avoid that, then you end up without a “button 1” for the 2-button pad. You’re just going to have to accept that this controller will require some manual configuration.
No.19377 ICEknight Tester Oct 25, 2021, 15:39 edited on: Oct 25, 2021, 18:27	First, the only assumption I see here is thinking that, in this day and age where Mega Drive and Saturn styled USB controllers are all the rage, MAME users will choose to play 6-button games with 4 face buttons. Second, this issue also causes the buttons to be swapped when using 4-button controllers, so not sure what the reasoning here was. If the button order here was consistent with MAME's default layout, it wouldn't require any manual configuration by anyone. The other issue you bring up seems to be a different one, since the buttons will still be swapped and require reconfiguring anyway. This is a real issue and it benefits nobody to leave it unfixed. The PR was perfectly fine before this small change was made to favor the button nomenclature over physical layout: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/pull/8028#commits-pushed-56441d9
No.19380 cuavas Administrator Oct 26, 2021, 11:28	The MAME “button” inputs aren’t assumed to be in any particular physical layout, there isn’t some intermediate virtual controller like RetroArch’s “retropads”. The buttons are ordered by number on this controller, just like the A, B, C, and D buttons on an AES controller are mapped to buttons 1, 2, 3 and 4 without regard to physical arrangement.