Viewing Issue Advanced Details
ID Category [?] Severity [?] Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
08067 Graphics Minor Always Aug 30, 2021, 08:45 Sep 2, 2021, 02:33
Tester jkburks View Status Public Platform MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To Resolution Open OS Windows 10 (64-bit)
Status [?] Acknowledged Driver
Version 0.235 Fixed in Version Build 64-bit
Fixed in Git Commit Github Pull Request #
Summary 08067: fspiderb: graphics priority issues
Description The small swinging spiders that appear in pattern 1 & pattern 3 are drawn behind the spider web. The large spider on the title screen and pattern 2 is drawn behind the spider web as well. The squirrel on pattern 1 and 2 is drawn behind the doorway in the tree, but drawn correctly on pattern 3. All of these objects are supposed to be on top of the background image.

I saw the WIP note:
0.138u2: Angelo Salese fixed priorities in Frog & Spiders.
But this is not a regression. I ran the game in MAME 0138 thru 0141 to see if this was fixed in 2010, but they all have the same priority issues as the current release.

I understand that this is suspected of being a bootleg version, but I think it is more likely to be an emulation issue than a bootleg issue or btanb.
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information Scans of marketing materials and photographs of the screen from a surviving pcb show that the spiders are supposed to be drawn on top of the spider web. There is a photo on the advertisement that shows the squirrel drawn on top of the upper doorway in the tree. Unfortunately this is the pattern that MAME gets correct, but I’m certain that Taito intended all of these objects to take priority over the backgrounds.

The large spider, swinging spiders, and squirrel all appear on the tilemap viewer. The frog and tadpoles appear on the tilemap as well, but they have no priority issues.

The sprites for the free roaming spiders, the solo hanging spiders, acorns, bees, dragonflies, & butterflies are all drawn on top of the backgrounds correctly. The free roaming spiders have the correct priority when entering the tree doorways unlike the squirrel.

I have uploaded an advertisement, a catalog photo, and a composite image of snaps showing the squirrel priority issue. The top tree doorway on pattern 3 appears to allow the squirrel to overhang the right edge of the door as shown on the advertisement photo. The priority issue is with the left edge of the door.

Sales Flyer on Flyer Fever

Taito catalog listing for cocktail model (uploaded)

Taito advertisement with 3 photos (uploaded) no image preview, so click the link

An original Frog & Spiders board was playable at the Natsuge Museum in Japan during March 2017. Several visitors posted photos of the crt screen to twitter.

These 2 show the title screen:

This one shows the start of pattern 01, and the instruction card.

In addition to showing proof of the priority issues, these sources also show some graphic anomalies to be true to the hardware. For example, the large white square on the upper tree branch where one of the web strands attaches looks wrong to me. Yet it appears on all of the crt photos and promotional materials. Similarly the odd single green pixel on the upper left tree branch appears on the hardware too.
Github Commit
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems fspiderb
Attached Files
jpg file icon frogs_spiders_advert.jpg (1,277,920 bytes) Aug 30, 2021, 08:45 Uploaded by jkburks
Frog & Spiders Advertisement cropped
jpg file icon frog_spid_catalog.jpg (50,282 bytes) Aug 30, 2021, 08:46 Uploaded by jkburks
Frog & Spiders cocktail catalog cropped
jpg file icon squirrel_priority.jpg (194,451 bytes) Aug 30, 2021, 08:47 Uploaded by jkburks
Frog & Spiders Squirrel Priority Snaps
jpg file icon spider_palette_glitch.jpg (218,899 bytes) Aug 30, 2021, 08:47 Uploaded by jkburks
Frog & Spiders palette glitch
7z file icon spider_glitch.7z (4,212 bytes) Aug 30, 2021, 08:49 Uploaded by jkburks
Frog & Spiders palette glitch save state MAME 0.235
jpg file icon beehive.jpg (20,862 bytes) Aug 30, 2021, 09:22 Uploaded by jkburks
Frog & Spider beehive graphic glitch
There are no relationship linked to this issue.
User avatar
Aug 30, 2021, 08:55
edited on: Aug 30, 2021, 09:27
In addition to the above priority issues, there is a palette glitch that may or may not be related. I don’t really want to open a separate report for this so I will include the details here. This glitch occurs after you kill the large spider on pattern 2. I have verified this glitch without cheats, but it is much easier to reproduce when using the invincibility cheat.

To kill the large spider (pattern 2) you need to shoot it in the flashing eyes 20 times. Your shots need to be very precise to register hits. If you hit the spot correctly the eyes begin flashing faster.

After you hit the eyes 10 times the spider shifts to a different angle. When you hit the eyes 10 more times the screen pauses briefly, a sound jingle plays, 2000 appears on the screen in red indicating bonus points, and then the spider is redrawn at the original angle with palette shifted legs (red instead of yellow) to indicate that it is dead. The spider is supposed to stay this way until the pattern ends.

The glitch happens when one of the solo hanging spiders spawns on the screen. There are 4 spawn locations for this, 2 down low, and 2 higher up near the short tree branches. The hanging spider is a sprite, but the red spider thread it hangs from appears on the tilemap. So when one of these spawns at either top location, the lowest leg tile of the spider corpse gets palette shifted back to yellow. The tile that changes color is on the same horizontal line as the red spider thread that triggers the glitch, and no tiles above this thread are affected.

To make this easier to see I have attached a save state for the current MAME that is at pattern 2 with the big spider dead. but before the palette glitch happens.

Load the state, and kill the hanging spider to the left in order to trigger a new one to spawn. If it spawns at one of the top locations the palette glitch happens. Just kill any spawns in the bottom location until this happens.

Alternately you can enable the invincibility cheat. Load the save state, kill the left hanging spider and hit F4, then Enter twice to view the Tilemap. Then P to unpause the game and watch the glitch happen on the tilemap viewer. If they spawn in the low positions you will need to exit the viewer and kill them to get a better spawn point.

I have attached a composite screen shot of the palette glitch alongside the tilemap viewer with a white line drawn to show the alignment.
User avatar
Aug 30, 2021, 09:26
Here is one more possible glitch that I can't verify without a hardware video. I have uploaded a screenshot to illustrate.

The beehive is colored pink. The black dots on the hive represent the bees living inside it. When the hive is active, the whole hive will flash from pink to white.

Shooting the active hive causes it to release some bees (max 3 on screen). When bees leave the hive their dots are erased and the flashing effect stops. These bees fly around and attack you until you kill them off.

Killing one or two bees makes room on screen for new bees so the hive activates again and begins flashing. Even the squirrel can trigger the active hive by tossing an acorn at it. This repeats until the hive is empty. Killing off all the bees is a requirement to progress to the next pattern.

So the glitch involves the flashing hive. Sometimes only part of the hive turns white. It is usually a vertical line or rectangle of white instead of the whole hive. See attached snap for one example. The width of the partial fill and location varies quite a bit. I don't know if this is emulation related. but it looks wrong to me.