08724: Most sets on taito_f3.cpp: Coin lockouts are always engaged while in Service Menus, impossible to test coin switches in Switch Test

ID	Category [?]	Severity [?]	Reproducibility	Date Submitted	Last Update
08724	Misc.	Minor	Always	Jul 14, 2023, 22:46	Jul 20, 2023, 12:53

Tester	Balthier	View Status	Public	Platform	MAME (Official Binary)
Assigned To		Resolution	Open	OS	Windows 10/11 (64-bit)
Status [?]	Confirmed			Driver	taito/taito_f3.cpp
Version	0.256	Fixed in Version		Build	64-bit
		Fixed in Git Commit		Github Pull Request #

Summary	08724: Most sets on taito_f3.cpp: Coin lockouts are always engaged while in Service Menus, impossible to test coin switches in Switch Test
Description	The coin lockout is always on while in the service menus of many games and it makes it impossible to have the coin switches show as "ON" when pressing 5-8 keys. There are a few games that actually disable the lockout once you are at the switch test menu though: - bublbob2 and all clones except bublbob2p, that one shows Coin C and D always locked - twinqix Also all of those except bublbob2p do this thing where they show Coins A-D as locked until you enter the switch test and exit that screen, then only Coin A/B are locked and C/D not locked until you exit Service Mode altogether. These in particular are 2 player games with only 2 slot D and E game style options (more info https://mametesters.org/view.php?id=1069 ) so why a Coin C/D lock anyway? C and D wouldn't exist on the 2 player machines. These games don't have a lockout at all anywhere that I have seen so not affected: - commandw - ridingf and clones These seem to only engage an A/B lockout at boot and then turn off for the rest of the session: - gseeker and clones - recalh (super brief at boot, almost miss it)
Steps To Reproduce	1. Run any of the affected sets. 2. Press F2, then TAB to view the Bookkeeping Info, Coins A-D should show as locked. 3. While in the Service Menu go to Switch Test, and then view the Bookkeeping info again. Still locked. 4. Try the coin inputs 5-8, nothing works.
Additional Information	All sets seem to do different things with the lockouts at boot and during the "WAIT" screens prior to the TAITO logo. I've seen games boot with A-D locked, then disengage A/B. Some start with just A/B engaged, then all engaged, and then just C/D finally. Others have just A/B engaged at boot then turn them off, and still others boot with no lock at all and then engage C/D. It's really mixed up.
Github Commit

Flags
Regression Version
Affected Sets / Systems	Most sets on taito_f3.cpp

Attached Files	coin_lockout_service_menu_switch_test_example.png (344,357 bytes) Jul 14, 2023, 22:46 Uploaded by Balthier

No.21653 AJR Developer Jul 15, 2023, 22:18	This might be a BTANB, since it isn't exactly unknown for coin lockout outputs to be asserted continuously in service mode. I haven't checked here, though.
No.21654 Balthier Tester Jul 16, 2023, 00:05	Right, I kind of figured it could be that too, which is why I mentioned the bublbob2 and twinqix sets actually disable lockouts only while in the switch tests, just in case. I don't know if that is how all of them should behave or if certain games lockout in all service mode screens all the time like you said. It seems like if the coin switch is available to test in the switch test screen then logically it shouldn't be locked there? But then even that assumption probably isn't always true either. I've been sweeping back n forth through the Taito drivers and seeing other sets doing this sort of thing too. I wish there was some kind of guideline for this.
No.21663 cuavas Administrator Jul 17, 2023, 11:03	In real life, you can test the coin switches and associated wiring by pressing the lever on the coin acceptor, bypassing the lockout. You can also unplug the lockout solenoid if you want to test dropping an actual coin in.
No.21667 Balthier Tester Jul 19, 2023, 04:32 edited on: Jul 19, 2023, 05:05	And to simulate that the user would turn off the lockout option with -nocoin_lockout , correct? The docs says its supposed to disable the lockouts. -[no]coin_lockout / -[no]coinlock Enables simulation of the "coin lockout" feature that is implemented on a number of arcade game PCBs. It was up to the operator whether or not the coin lockout outputs were actually connected to the coin mechanisms. If this feature is enabled, then attempts to enter a coin while the lockout is active will fail and will display a popup message in the user interface (in debug mode). If this feature is disabled, the coin lockout signal will be ignored. The default is ON (-coin_lockout). The given example doesn't work either, I can still put coins in that machine with "mame suprmrio -coin_lockout", and thinking about it more, does this machine even use a lockout? Going back through a few games I noticed the coin switches work with -nocoin_lockout but the locks still show they are on. I even tried darius2 because that one I know has a 9 credit limit and locks. Still shows a lockout with -nocoin_lockout in the UI after 9 but you can pop more coins in. Maybe there is a bigger issue here, or does the "locked" message always show up by design?
No.21668 Robbbert Senior Tester Jul 20, 2023, 12:53	Tried elvactr, confirmed.