 No.23785
Augusto Tester
2 days ago
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I had played Final Fight arcade both original Capcom and custom bootlegs. Original Capcom had only 2 buttons and some bootlegs had the third button. In the begin you will say need restore that third button, but with enough time you will see make sense to be exactly as original Capcom cabinet. In SNES version is possible cancel the grab doing UP + attack. Perhaps the arcade has an way to cancel as the SNES too. Now Rolento and Abigail will be more hard ... not more than the SNES version =) |
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 No.23787
Robbbert Moderator
2 days ago
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Removed by hap: https://git.redump.net/mame/commit/src/mame/capcom/cps1.cpp?id=71ddebceb778368a536e9ac229851e50287fc032 You can reverse what he did and recompile. |
 No.23789
con5duros Tester
2 days ago
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I think is a mistake what Hap did, that was not even a Cheat Button, it was available in the Jamma, I don not how to recompile Mame, Mame I think thay is really sad that right now with the last version of Mame, it's imposible ti play like we used to in the arcades, where we had generic three button cabinets, and Final Fight has been always played like that, in the arcades and always via emulation. If some does not wanna use it, it's simple, hust do not Map it but for the people like me it's really sad this kind of changes. |
 No.23791
abelardator2 Tester
1 day ago
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The instruction manual for the original PCB states that it has a Jamma connection, meaning three function buttons. I have an actual PCB and I use the third button on my Jamma cabinet. Please enable this feature, as the original hardware has it implemented. |
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No.23792
Haze Senior Tester
1 day ago
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Capcom consider the 3rd button a debug feature, not meant to be connected. Lots of cabinets did have it connected, yes, but that's because it was a heavily bootlegged game, and also one that got put in a lot of conversions. But it's not meant to be there, it's basically just a cheat to get out of the holds. |
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No.23797
Osso Moderator
1 day ago
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If it's available it should IMHO be there. People can unmap it if they don't want it, as con5duros wrote. This whole inputs removing stuff that's being going on doesn't make much sense to me. |
 No.23798
MetalGod Senior Tester
1 day ago
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Probably a stupid decision by Capcom back in the day. Most arcade operators never had or read the game’s PCB manuals, and in most cases the PCB was a bootleg. History wrote itself this way, and MAME should not alter it but reproduce it. The button should be mentioned as “debug” in parentheses inside the inputs, and that would be a fair solution. |
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No.23799
abelardator2 Tester
1 day ago
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In my opinion, if Mame does not include this input, it is not emulating the original hardware correctly.... |
 No.23800
StHiryu Tester
1 day ago
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Yeah, if MAME is about accuracy and representing the original hardware as it is, whatever that button purpose is not important. The important thing is that input exist in the original hardware. |
 No.23801
hap Developer
1 day ago
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That's the thing: it does not exist on original Final Fight hardware, not on the official cpanel. It's not accessible in test mode either (an argument people come up for other games that have unused in-game buttons). I don't think non-existant inputs should be mapped by default in MAME. One might say that it's JAMMA so the (emulated) hardware should always support multiple buttons, but then why shouldn't for example Ghouls n Ghosts have 3 buttons as well? (and hundreds of JAMMA games) And if you want to be really strict with this on the opinion opposite of mine, every accessible I/O pin on edge connectors or whatever should have a button by default in MAME. |
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No.23803
MetalGod Senior Tester
1 day ago
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Con5duros point was quite confusing, it seems he just doesn't have a clue about jamma and inputs. In this case that button should have never been mapped in mame. It is ok this way then. |
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No.23804
Osso Moderator
1 day ago
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answering to hap (comment No. 23801): one thing is having an input that does nothing, another thing is having one input that has an actual effect, even if undocumented. In the latter case IMHO the user should have the possibility to use it without having to recompile MAME. |
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No.23806
hap Developer
1 day ago
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Then perhaps something like this?: /* The button below is not officially documented and does not exist on the control panel, probably a leftover. Pressing it will allow you to escape from grabs and choke holds instantly. */ PORT_MODIFY("IN1") PORT_BIT( 0x0040, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_OTHER ) PORT_PLAYER(1) PORT_NAME ("P1 Button 3 (N/C)") PORT_BIT( 0x4000, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_OTHER ) PORT_PLAYER(2) PORT_NAME ("P2 Button 3 (N/C)") IPT_OTHER = unmapped by default I still don't like this very much and won't commit it myself (but won't stop anyone that does). |
 No.23807
Kale Developer
1 day ago
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By default JAMMA has 4 buttons, late Chinese harness actually expand that to 6. It's perfectly fine to have an IPT_OTHER in this specific case, and leave user to opt-in the usage (and be banned at MARP/TG if he tries to upload an inp with a b3 trigger lol). |
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No.23808
Haze Senior Tester
1 day ago
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I think the IPT_OTHER solution is fine. Just because players liked using it and some incorrectly converted cabinets have it available though doesn't mean MAME's emulation is broken without it though. Billy Mitchell allegedly likes using diagonals on Donkey Kong, but MAME correctly defaults to a setting where that isn't possible. Plenty of games also have debug inputs not available in MAME, eg. quite a few motion cabinet games that didn't use buttons have those buttons tied to debug functions instead, eg. instantly killing the player. |
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No.23809
abelardator2 Tester
1 day ago
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The entire "ffight" romset has that grab escape function on the third button, perhaps it was an oversight on Capcom, and they only thought of using two buttons to attack and jump. The original arcade board is printed with "JAMMA" and was sold for use in a generic "JAMMA" cabinet, not just the official one, which I never saw. |
 No.23810
RecreativosPiscis Tester
1 day ago
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IMHO, that `IPT_OTHER` option would fit best, which lets the button unmapped by default, but the user could map it into a key if he wants. This is basically what the operator could do back then, wiring or not the third button into the control panel at his discretion. In the end, if the goal is to emulate as faithfully as possible, and the original hardware provides that 3rd button option (no matter if was intended or not), emulation should allow us to have that option, too, if we want to have the most accurate emulation compared to real hw. In Japan game centers, most times the game was installed into a generic candy cabinet which usually provided a 3+ button setup, and the third button was available to the player (and it's currently available in ones which are still open). Furthermore, there are tons of examples in MAME where games have undocumented options in their DIP switches, and they are still available on emulation. This case is more or less the same. |
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No.23811
Augusto Tester
22 hours ago
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@hap "That's the thing: it does not exist on original Final Fight hardware," You are correct. Capcom USA cabinet not had third button. I remember playing ffight in original Capcom cabinet. Brazil had an high number of bootlegs PCBs mainly from Capcom and using custom cabinets with three buttons even if the game use only 1 or 2 buttons. Thus was simple change the PCB and connect to control panel. Here in Brazil the custom cabinets with more exact number of buttons was Konami 4 players arcades. That behavior was changed with the release of Street Fighter 2. Brazil was much rare original cabinets ... You find original arcades in shopping centers. |